I think David Talbott and The Thunderbolts Project have gone off the rails. This is why they are placing all their emphasis on the electric universe. It also explains why they are unwilling to put a date on the explosion of Proto-Saturn. The Jupiter Myth is the way forward.
The Jupiter Myth (Preliminary Preview) -Part 1- Conjunction of Opposites
The Jupiter Myth (Preliminary Preview) -Part 2- Catastrophe & Creation / The Silver Age Cosmos
The Jupiter Myth (Preliminary Preview) – Part 3 – Clash of the Titans / The Dragon & The Serpent
from the Myths are History YouTube channel
What does Proto-Saturn mean? This is a term invented by David Talbott of The Thunderbolts Project™. Here is the definition of proto-:
Proto-Saturn is the planet Saturn when it was our primordial sun before exploding and being removed to a distant orbit (i.e. before it became the planet we know of today). Proto-Saturn was part of what David Talbott calls the Polar Configuration of the planets. If you are not familiar with the Polar Configuration, you can read about it in Catastrophism 101. You should read Archetypes and the Polar Configuration in particular. According to the Osiris Myth, Proto-Saturn was much larger than it is today, larger even than Jupiter and it had no rings.
Why I use the Word “Explode”
I have elevated this discussion to a separate section because I have been attacked more than once for using the word “explode” to explain what happened to Saturn. And no less than Jno Cook, for whom I have great respect, has vehemently questioned my linking of the fourteen pieces of Osiris to the aftermath of that explosion. Yet the following quote is from Saturn’s Golden Age written by the man I think we should all pay homage, for without him we would not know anything about the real history of our solar system:
Saturn exploded and caused the Earth to go through the greatest of its historical catastrophes, and this was completely sufficient to make of Saturn the supreme deity; but it appears that the Age of Saturn is a name for the epoch before the Deluge; after the Deluge Saturn, dismembered, almost ceased to exist as a planetary body and when at length it was reconstituted it was fettered by rings, and was far from being the dominant celestial body that would behoove it as the supreme deity of the epoch. —Immanuel Velikovsky [bold-red emphasis added]
Velikovsky in not unacquainted with the term nova. He article entitled simply Nova seems designed to emphasis this fact and to show how “normal” novas should not be confused with what happened immediately prior to and during the biblical deluge. Yet he characterizes what happened as an explosion. Perhaps, as Velikovsky suggests, what “exploded” was the water (as opposed to the light of a nova).
Does not this sound like the Osiris myth? And, even if it sounds to our modern sensibilities outlandish, should we not allow ourselves to be informed as to what happened by the eyewitnesses? Elsewhere, in Saturn and Jupiter, he says:
On becoming a nova, it ejected filaments in all directions and the solar system became illuminated as if by a hundred suns. It subsided rather quickly and retreated into far-away regions. —Immanuel Velikovsky
Perhaps this close to Earth, the filaments were visible. Or perhaps they were Saturn’s asteroids and comets. Whatever it was, water, filaments, asteroids, or comets, Saturn appeared to have exploded before it went nova. I stand behind my use of the word.
What caused the explosion? Here is what Immanuel Velikovsky has to sat in Saturn and Jupiter:
As told, the picture that emerges from comparative folklore and mythology presents Saturn and Jupiter in vigorous interactions. Suppose that these two bodies approached each other rather closely at one time, causing violent perturbations and huge tidal effects in each other’s atmospheres. Their mutual disturbance led to a stellar explosion, or nova. As we have seen, a nova is thought to result from an instability in a star, generated by a sudden influx of matter, usually derived from its companion in a binary system. If what we call today Jupiter and Saturn are the products of such a sequence of events, their appearance and respective masses must formerly have been quite different.
A scenario such as this would explain the prominence of Saturn prior to its cataclysmic disruption and dismemberment—it must have been a larger body than it is now, possibly of the volume of Jupiter. Interestingly, for certain reasons G. Kuiper assumed that Saturn originally was of a mass equal to that of Jupiter. At some point during a close approach to Jupiter, Saturn became unstable; and, as a result of the influx of extraneous material, it exploded, flaring as a nova which, after subsiding, left a remnant that the ancients still recognized as Saturn, even though it was but a fraction of the celestial body of earlier days. In Saturn’s explosion much of the matter absorbed earlier was thrown off into space. Saturn was greatly reduced in size and removed to a distant orbit—the binary system was broken up and Jupiter took over the dominant position in the sky.
Saturn could be removed only by the planet Jupiter, the sole member of the planetary family more powerful than Saturn. And indeed, the myth says that Saturn was removed by Jupiter. —Immanuel Velikovsky
Notice that I have said nothing about Proto-Saturn “encountering” or being “captured” by the sun.
I profoundly disagree with Wallace Thornhill and the electric universe school of thought; Proto-Saturn was not “captured” by the Sun. Mankind did not live in relative darkness for countless generations. The Zodiac and the Mesoamerican calendars argue against this possibility. The implications of this are nothing less than mind-boggling.
I will return to these “implications” momentarily. But first, it is imperative to address the electric universe’s notion that Proto-Saturn was “captured” by the sun. From the moment I first heard I thought to myself, “This new crop of thinkers can make mistakes as grand as the last.” I fear the reason for this is something buried deep in the human psyche. We insist on being originators. We lack the imagination to place ourselves in what would seem to us to be an infinitely long progression. In short, everything must be recent. It is a sort of deeply ingrained egotism.
The very same essentially narcissistic thought that gave rise to the idea of a Big Bang would now have us believe that Proto-Saturn was “captured” by the sun and that the change from the polar configuration to the present arrangment of the planets is the first time our solar system has ever reconfigured itself in response to extrasolar electromagnetic forces such as our binary dance with the Sirius star system
If we can interpret myth why can we not simply listen to what the ancients are telling us? This has happened before. It will happen again. The Mayans referred to it as a “Great Cycle” every 432 orbits of Jupiter. Every 2160 orbits of Jupiter something even more spectacular happens. The ancient Greeks called it the “Ekpyrosis”
When in the polar configuration as opposed to the present configuration of the planets, there are two suns. Wallace Thornhill says this much in the very same video from which the above image was taken. At 2:15 minutes into the video he says”
“In my home in Australia, the original inhabitants have legends of a time when there were two suns, a greater and a lesser sun” —Wallace Thornhill
Here is the critical question:
If the polar configuration survived for what must have been hundreds if not thousands of years within the sun’s heliosphere, on what basis does the electric universe school of thought rule out the possibility that the polar configuration is not normal for our solar system. Why do they assume it could have been only short-lived and that Proto-Saturn must have been “captured” by the sun?
Proto-Saturn NOT Captured by the Sun
The following video discusses Earth’s supposed “capture” by the Sun. There must be another reason for the flare-up, such as a galactic superwave (at the start he says Thornhill addresses the same topic in EU2014 find it)
I find this to be an absurd notion. The ice core temperature record does not support this, neither does Immanuel Velikovsky:
If there is truth in the surmise, and nothing more it is than a surmise, that the Earth was once a satellite of Saturn, the latter must have revolved closer to the sun in order that the Earth should receive heat from it—Saturn exudes little heat—and if the age of Kronos was a golden age, then it is also proper to assume that the conditions on the satellite Earth were not unfavorable for life. —Immanuel Velikovsky from Saturn’s Golden Age
I have serious misgivings about Jergens’ theory that Proto-Saturn flared because the polar configuration was “captured” by the Sun. Who am I to fault the EU team, but I find this absurd. Whatever happened in the 9500 BC timeframe interrupted a 100,000 year, heartbeat-like temperature cycle right as it was approaching an interglacial peak. The ice cores tell us that Earth’s Holocene temperature record thereafter is only two degrees centigrade off the peak it never reached and only eight degrees centigrade (14.4° Fahrenheit) warmer than the lowest recorded temperatures over the past 400,000 years.
Common sense is lacking here. How can you add a yellow dwarf (the Sun) into the equation and only end up with an eight-degree centigrade difference in temperature? That defies logic. Whatever caused Proto-Saturn to flare must be something else, such as one of LaViolette’s galactic superwaves.
Now look at the ice core temperature record for this planet:
Look a little closer:
Earth stabilizes within a few centigrades of the so-called “interglacial” (another subject) peaks of the previous solar system configuration. The new temperature norm is so close to the old range that I cannot agree that Proto-Saturn was “captured” by the Sun. The Sun has always been at the center of the solar system. This is the message of there being 144 Jose solar cycles in the Mesoamerican (misnamed “Mayan”) Long Count calendar.
CUT FROM DELETED ICE CORE TEMPERATURE RECORDS….
The Beginning of Our World
If you look at the “δD versus age” (top) chart above, you will see that for about 400,000 years through four different ice ages the temperature record was as regular as a heartbeat. About every 100,000 years there is an interglacial period. Clearly nothing as dramatic as a reconfiguration of the planets in the solar system happened during this time. That leaves only the recent past in which this could have happened because had the giants died over 400,000 years ago their skeletons would not be so close to the surface. In fact, had they died that long ago, there would be no giant skeletons at any depth.
Nothing will ever be the same
Earth has two pasts now. One is gone and will never return. That was the world spoken of by David Talbott in which Proto-Saturn was our primary Sun. This has profound implications for the correct interpretation of our planet’s temperature record. Most import of all is that the Milankovitch Cycles cannot be projected back in time to explain glaciation. As another example, the following quote from Wikipedia is completely meaningless when you stop to consider that 400,000 years ago Earth was part of the polar configuration. Why? Because Earth was on a completely different orbital path. So the “orbital parameters” 400,000 years ago were completely different. Everything was.
The interglacial 400 kyr ago, which is believed (from arguments about the configuration of the orbital parameters of the earth) to be an approximate analogue to the current interglacial, was quite long: 28 kyr. The Nature paper argues that if this analogue is accepted, the current climate would be expected to continue like today’s, in the absence of human influence (which it states is unlikely, given the predicted increases in greenhouse gas concentrations). —Wikipedia
Prior to the stabilization of the present configuration of the planets, which clearly did not happen until after 747 BC,
This is our world
“something came close enough to Earth to melt rock”
Czech Mate – “Confirmation” of the Younger Dryas impact event
Bronze Age Iron Weapons
Thanks Catherine. I have a copy of Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Present and have added it to my read list for solving this problem. The thing that is exciting about “solar flare” resources is that they potentially support a local nova such as Proto-Saturn exploding, I would especially say this about the Paul A LaViolette resource Joshua Roberts provided (above) at https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/…/viewFile/3464/pdf. I very seriously doubt that either he or Schoch have considered that their physical evidence could be traced back to an explosion of Proto-Saturn rather than a super flare coming from our current Sun.
NOT FOR PUBLICATION (22 FEB 18 email)
Here are the facts as I see them: 1. *EQUAL IN IMPORTANCE:* On the one hand, we have the biggest, most important myth of all time, the Osiris myth. On the other hand, we have the biggest, most important event of all time, the breakup of David Talbott’s Polar configuration. You can add the perfect spice to this by Jno Cook’s date of 3147 BC more or less corresponding to the same timeframe of the Osiris myth (I need to investigate this). These two, the myth and the event, want to be cojoined.
jno: I actually think the 4000 years of the southern plasmoids was more important. It set the tone for almost every religion for 7000 years.